Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/19/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB65 | |
| HB193 | |
| HB267 |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 267 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 193 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HJR 2 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 65 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HOUSE BILL NO. 193
"An Act relating to the composition of the Alaska
Police Standards Council; and providing for an
effective date."
2:20:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BOB ROSES, SPONSOR, gave an overview of HB
193 which changes the composition of the Alaska Police
Standards Council (APSC). Currently the Council is made of
four chief administrative officers; HB 193 would change that
to three. Included in the three positions would be one
position that could be a correctional administrative
officer. The bill does not change the composition of the
private sector or the rural representation to the Council.
Representative Roses addressed concerns about displacing
people currently serving on the Council. He assured the
Committee that the two officers would never be able to
control the majority vote.
2:23:15 PM
Representative Roses cited other boards that have the
authority to grant, suspend or revoke certification, and
pointed out that all those boards have peer representation.
He thought the issue was an equitability issue and not a
union issue. The Governor would have opportunity to select
from a group of officers whose names would be forwarded by
the Association. The Governor is free to choose from any
group; the list is only a recommendation list. He said six
police chiefs came to his office when he introduced the bill
to try and talk him out of it. The more they talked the more
he was convinced the bill is needed.
2:25:53 PM
Representative Roses addressed concerns that the proposal
would move the disciplinary process to a higher level and
that some police officers would have a tendency to protect
their own personnel. Representative Roses sees the bill as
an opportunity for peer representation on a board that is
currently made up mostly of chiefs and commissioners.
2:27:41 PM
Representative Crawford thought the bill would give a voice
to line officers.
Representative Thomas pointed out that he did not see any
Village Public Safety Officers (VPSO) on the board.
Representative Roses replied that language included in the
bill on the second page, line 4, would give an opportunity
for VPSOs to serve. He thought rural representation was a
very important part of the bill.
2:29:51 PM
WALT MONEGAN, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY,
spoke in opposition to the bill. He said that police operate
under a para-military organizational structure. The Chief or
equivalent head has to be accountable to the community and
needs to have mobility in regards to consistent and fair
standards, usually indicated by the cooperative work
agreements that many of the departments already have. When a
chief wants to take action, there are clear procedures that
labor organizations can respond to.
Mr. Monegan pointed out that the APSC has two main
functions, one of which is training. The lesson plans for
the training section does not come from APSC, but from
individual departments. The subject matter experts are
already line officers.
Mr. Monegan continued with the second function of the APSC:
oversight of a certification process that maintains a high
standard of law enforcement. He emphasized the importance of
objectivity. A chief has to keep a professional distance. He
gave an example of firing three officers for dishonesty
issues and the emotional responses to the firing. The de-
certification process is a difficult and long process.
Police officers are hard to find and to train, and APSC
wants them to succeed. However, the process is necessary to
keep public trust.
2:36:56 PM
Mr. Monegan felt the addition of two officers to the Council
did not make sense because the training does not come from
them, and second, they could not vote if the issue were with
a person from their membership. He urged the Committee to
look at the effectiveness of the two officers that would be
on the Council.
2:37:32 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked for comparisons between APSC and
the Fire Standards Council. Mr. Monegan answered that the
purpose of both councils is to ensure high standards of
qualified personnel. They both want to protect the public.
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked if the two councils make different
personnel decisions. Mr. Monegan reiterated their
similarities, although APSC has the ability to remove an
individual entirely from the profession. There was a
discussion about the grievance process in different unions
and how the proposed changes in the bill would affect that
process.
2:40:53 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze said he would keep listening to both
sides.
Mr. Monegan addressed Representative Thomas's concerns about
VPSOs. He said the issue was that VPSOs are not certified
police officers. They would not fall under APSC as they are
employees of non-profits.
Representative Kelly asked Mr. Monegan if he had to build
the Fire Standards Council from the ground up, would he have
the representation that is being asked for on the APSC or
would he remove it. Mr. Monegan replied that he would remove
the representation from that council as well.
2:42:39 PM
MARK DRYGAS, BATTALION CHIEF, FAIRBANKS FIRE DEPARTMENT,
ALASKA PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION, spoke in favor
of HB 193. He supported having line personnel on the APSC.
He thought the line personnel would feel represented and
heard. The chiefs do not work the long shifts or face what
the line personnel face. He referred to Brian Davis, line
personnel on the Fire Standards Council. Mr. Drygas feels
heard because of Mr. Davis's representation.
2:45:33 PM
JEFF LANDVATTER, ALASKA STATE TROOPER, spoke in favor of HB
193 (Statement on File). He has served for 23 years. He
thought the bill was about representation and giving peace
officers a voice on a committee that dictates their careers.
He wanted to see rank and file members on the Council, just
as on other similar boards. Two members would not be able to
overturn decisions of the Council. Every patrol officer
wants the best standing next to him and backing him up. A
patrol officer can bring the perspective and insight the
Council needs.
2:48:15 PM
TERRY VRABEC, DIRECTOR, ALASKA POLICE STANDARDS COUNCIL
(TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke in opposition to HB
193. He referred to letters before the Committee from
himself, from Daniel Hoffman, the Chairman of the APSC, and
from Chief Charles Kamai from Kodiak (On File).
2:49:30 PM
BOB CLAUS, SELF, CRAIG (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke
in favor of HB 193. Mr. Clause has been a State Trooper for
approximately twenty years and has trained police officers
around the state. He thought adding two working police
officers to the APSC would give a working officer's
perspective to decision making, especially concerning
training issues. Although he shares many years of experience
with the police administrators that currently decide on
course content, his understanding of face-to-face policing
is based on on-going interactions with Alaskans. He
described one of his work days. He felt a person with such
experience is needed on the APSC.
2:52:27 PM
STEVE SMITH, DEPUTY CHIEF, ANCHORAGE POLICE DEPARTMENT (APD)
(TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke on behalf of the Chief
of APD, in opposition to HB 193. He said APD is opposed to
the change in the APSC proposed in the bill. The Council is
primarily a standard-setting and enforcement body, as well
as being a training advocacy body for law enforcement in
Alaska. The bill would alter the Council's internal
operating environment, moving it more towards that of a
labor management dispute forum. There are currently ample
mechanisms in place to settle labor issues. Alaska law and
collective bargaining agreements in effect within state law
enforcement agencies already have appropriate forums for
those issues. He thought the current system was working well
and thought HB 193 would upset that balance.
2:54:27 PM
Representative Crawford questioned whether there was balance
with eleven management members on the Council. He thought
two line officers wouldn't upset the balance, but would add
a voice.
Mr. Smith replied that the balance he referred to was the
broader system of labor dispute mechanisms. He thought the
Council presently fits well into that broader system. When
someone comes before the Council with a potential
decertification action, they will usually have either legal
or union representation. The actual job action has already
taken place or is in the process of taking place through
their grievance and arbitration procedures with their
department. The decertification action is a separate
activity.
2:56:20 PM
CHUCK KOPP, CHIEF, KENAI POLICE DEPARTMENT (TESTIFIED VIA
TELECONFERENCE), spoke in opposition to HB 193. He said many
chiefs in Alaska also do day-to-day police work and
understand the experiences of line officers. He wanted the
Committee to understand that there has not been a complaint
against the Council about unfairness. The union does not
have a grievance against the Council. He served as chairman
of the APSC for the last two years and felt the body worked
exceptionally well in unison with the four public members,
two of whom are from communities of 2,500 or less. House
Bill 193 represents the removal of the largest public safety
employer in Alaska from having representation, by removing a
correctional administrative officer. He pointed out that
Corrections oversees not only prisons but probation and
parole. The Director of Probation and Parole is the
administrative officer that has historically served on APSC,
along with the Commissioner of Corrections. The removal of
this person, who oversees so many personnel and operational
matters, would be a significant loss and adversely affect
the Council's functioning. He thought four chiefs are
necessary on the Council.
Mr. Kopp appreciated the argument that the issue is
representation, but he feels it is a conflict of interest. A
person serves on the Council because they have been
nominated by a labor organization. Labor organizations have
their proper role in protecting the rights of the accused,
but they already have representation before the Council.
Five of the positions on the Council currently are occupied
by individuals from labor organized agencies.
Mr. Kopp said firefighters are not required to take an oath
of office to protect and serve their community and uphold
the law. They are not required by statute to subscribe to a
code of ethics or to live their private lives in alignment
with that code. He read the code of ethics and said much of
the code does not apply to firefighters, while police
officers are held to the highest standard in public service.
He said the balance on the Council has served well for many
years and felt HB 193 would upset that balance.
3:06:02 PM
Representative Thomas asked if any of the chiefs on the
Council were union employees or former union employees. Mr.
Kopp said that the chairman, Chief Dan Hoffman, was the
former union president for the Fairbanks Police Department.
Representative Thomas asked if he stepped down if there was
a union issue before the Council. Mr. Kopp said he would if
the issue involved one of his officers.
Representative Thomas asked Mr. Kopp about his experience as
a trainer. Mr. Kopp listed his extensive teaching and
training experience. He said the Council is careful in its
deliberations regarding decertification.
3:10:03 PM
Co-Chair Meyer closed public testimony.
HB 193 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
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